Voodoo
Tue, January 8, 2013 Voodoo or rather its Black Magic offshoot is practiced in certain parts of the world and sometimes a curse is put on someone and that person dies. There is absolutely no medical reason for the person to die, and yet their belief in the curse and the suggestion of it is enough to bring about their demise.
I wonder if the media in America does the very same thing by constantly suggesting that one in four people will get this disease and one in six people will die of that disease. And the people believe in this; just like Black Magic they oblige by dying.
Some years ago it was noticed that French people generally eat a high fat diet and yet they have less heart disease than there is in the US. It has been suggested that maybe drinking red wine as the French do somehow prevents the buildup of the bad cholesterol in the body.
Maybe so, but can it also be that heart disease is not in the psyche of the French people as a Nation? Maybe they are not being told constantly by their media that heart disease is the number one killer in their country.
In many European countries, cancer and not heart disease is said to be the number one killer. So is this too a case of a prophecy causing the outcome?
I have said this before, but it bears repeating. Much of the medical profession now accepts that prayer can help a person heal. What is a prayer but a positive thought. It is not the ritual or the actual words spoken in the prayer, but the belief in the outcome; in other words, faith. Without the belief that there will be a positive outcome the prayer will not work.
So if a positive thought can bring about healing, is it not entirely possible that a negative thought caused the malady in the first place. What other explanation is there for an otherwise healthy person to die as a result of a Black Magic curse other than the power of thought and suggestion?
Thoughts are like seeds and there is no distinction as to whether a thought is positive or negative; whether the ritual is a religious prayer or some Black Magic rite. It is not the thought, but a person’s belief in the outcome that causes the seed come to fruition.
Do you have any thoughts on the power of thought?
Reader Comments (17)
You may have said it before, but the power of prayer has no scientific support and studies indicate that it may actually have a negative effect. If your doctors are recommending prayer for what ails you, you might want to find another doctor.
A study funded by religious supporters refutes their beliefs
Some doctors believe and some don’t, just as some people believe and some don’t. That is perfectly okay, I am not trying to force unwanted beliefs on anyone. I don’t practice prayer myself but I do find if I hold a positive outlook or thought about something, I usually achieve the desired outcome.
As I see it the difference between Physics and Metaphysics is that Physics can be proved to another by demonstration that a person can recreate. However, Metaphysics can only be proved to oneself, again by demonstration. If it works for me it is working, you can’t tell me it is not when I demonstrate it to my self over and over.
Dave
What Dave comments above is nonsense. The obvious evidence to the power of positive thinking is the staggering success of 12-steps groups, such as Alcoholic Anonymous.
Actually there is a big difference between negative and positive thoughts and religious prayers vs. black magic that has nothing to do with beliefs. The difference is in power - in energy. This power can be actually measured - or revealed - via kinesiological testing. One of the best books about this is "Power vs. Force" by Dr. David R Hawkins (Veritas Publishings).
In one book there was an article about Japanese students conducting an experiement: they had a couple of plants. To the first one they would say frequently "you fool"; to the other one they would say frequently "I love you".
The first plant had very retarded root growth and withered; the second plant grew healthy with large roots. Also, there is a book called "Messages from water" by a Japanese scientist. Basically, he took a small bottle with pure water and on the bottle put a label with a written message. After some time of having the water exposed to the message he would freeze the water and view the water crystals under a powerful microscope. Water that was exposed to positive message displayed beutiful crystals. Water that was exposed to negative messages formed distorted crystals. Plants and water don't understand the words and have no beliefs - they react to the energy sent to them.
Michel Blue,
Exactly. So if a plant can live or die by words spoken to it, why can a cancer not live or die by the same metod. People are living organisms the same as a plant and any other living thing.
Did the Japanese students you spoke of not pratice some sort of daily ritual by talking to the plants, and was this so far removed from a religious ritual like prayer?
If a loved one says to a person who is dying, "I love you" and another prays for the sick person, does it really matter, especially if the patient recovers. Both held positive thoughts.
I am not promoting any religious agenda here, I simply stated that a prayer was nothing more than a positive thought. Or positive energy, I'll accept that.
Dave
Let me just add something about the belief aspect of prayer and positive thought. Some prayers are answered some are not; the same with positive thoughts.
If one is praying to some divine being it appears that this divine being then makes a choice whether to answer that prayer or not. “I will heal this person, but old Mr. So-and-so here I don’t really care for him. So I’ll just let him die”
It makes more sense to me that the answer is in the payer itself, and whether the person believes in a positive outcome. It is how it works metaphysically whether you believe there is a divine being or not.
I will go even further and say if you hold a positive thought and there is the slightest doubt as to the outcome, it is no longer a positive thought. Once you ask yourself, “What will I do if I lose?” You have already lost.
Dave
@ Dave M. : "So if a plant can live or die by words spoken to it, why can a cancer not live or die by the same metod. People are living organisms the same as a plant and any other living thing." People are not the same living organisms as plants and any other living things. The human body may be, but we are not human bodies; our physical bodies are just a part of our being. As humans we have a very complex energy structure that "lower" forms of life don't have. We also have something called karma that plants don't have and if animals do, then to some much lower extent.
All prayers are important whether they seem to manifest or not, as they are (also) declarations of the person's intent and help him/her align with the energy field of what he's praying for/about. How far a prayer can reach (also) depends on cohesiveness of the persons energy, on his/her karma, and - yes - on the willigness/ableness of the higher energies to help. If the person's energy filed is fragmented due to toxins and/or negative intentions a prayer, while certainly vitally important, may not get as far as a prayer spoken by a healthy, congruent, positive person. A cancer patient praying for healing and at the same time ingesting toxins (such as coffee, processed/junk food, alcohol, smoking),
won't get very far with the prayer at all. A prayer to a higher energy (God, angel, etc) may manifest in a way and at a time not expected by the person.
The phrase "God helps those that help themselves" is true. Talking is cheap; one can be asking for healing or divine intervention but if the person's deeds are not congruent with his/her praying, it's all in vain. OTOH, if the person does all he/she can consciously do to help him/her-self and at the same time prays, the chance of that manifesting is hugely larger.
One of the most important things in all this is a principle that can be called "congruence with" or "being in harmony with". If the person is not congruent with what is being prayed for, the chance of it manifesting is almost nil. And yes, a person can be incongruent (not in harmony with) even with healing cancer or having enough money to live normally. There can be probably millions of reasons why someone would be not in harmony with healing and other positive stuff - most of the time it all springs from unresolved emotions and toxicity. There is a technique that detects this congruence - incongruence stuff and helps correct it: it's called "neuro-emotional technique" (NET) and is practiced by specieally trained doctors. You can see more on www.netmindbody.com.
Michael Blue,
I don’t find myself disagreeing with anything you say, but when you use words and phrases like “Karma,” “higher energy,” “being in harmony with,” I think of Buddhism or some branch thereof. Not that I see anything wrong with that, but as I said I am not pushing any religious agenda, which includes any or all of the various religions.
Like many people I had Christianity forced on me as a child, then as an adult I believed in nothing, my philosophy was, “Life is a bitch, and then you die.” In my fifties I was a very unhappy person, and realized that only I could change that. I looked at Zen Buddhism, but in the end I asked myself this, “Are the countries that are predominately Zen Buddhist any less fucked up as a nation of people than we are? Are their people far happier and less prone to suicide, etc?”
In the end I found that it appears that there is a higher power or God if you will, and He lives within me. I do not need to go to Tibet or India to find Him/She/It. Maybe it is a simple as life itself because every living, plant, insect, animal, bird, fish, has life and as amazing as we humans think we are, we cannot put life back into something that has died.
So maybe life, that Spirit if you will that lives within my body, is God and It is a part of me, and I am a part of It. I try to keep an open mind about everything, let others do and believe whatever they wish as long as it doesn’t affect me.
But don’t tell me I am wrong because I am intensely happy, happier than I have ever been in my entire life. And at the same time if I died tomorrow that wouldn’t bother me either.
It took me many years to figure this shit out, and I write about it here because 1.) I have to write about something, and 2.) Someone might just read it and say “That sounds reasonable,” and if it doesn’t sound reasonable then at least I’ve given people like you Michael a chance to put forward your views. Which are no more or no less valid either.
Dave
Dave, I don't subscribe to any religion. I would describe myself as spiritual but not a memeber of a religion. I think that what you describe about your life happens to a lot of people. Growing up in a communist country, belief in God wasn't encouraged, nor entertained. Then certain experience in life led to more open mind and heart...
Or, look at life of Dr. David R Hawkins. At first he was religious/spiritual, then he became very atheistic, and then he went back to deep spiritual life and became enlightened.
Perhaps in some way people who go through different phases of life (spiritual - non-spiritual) have a richer life experience.
What you write in the third and fourth paragraph is what all the enlightened people have been saying for ages.
All the power to your happiness :-)
http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/2009/9/24/thinking-makes-it-so.html
http://davesbikeblog.blogspot.co.uk/2008/05/fear-and-negativity-dont-even-think.html
http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/2006/11/21/positive-thinking.html
I see a pattern. Thinking that postive thinking or negative thinking have any effect in the real world does not make it so. Cherry pick the examples you want and cognitive bias will allow you to overlook those that don't back up your belief.
Peter,
400 years ago Shakespeare said, (In Hamlet.) “Nothing is either good or bad but thinking makes it so.” This is not new thinking or some nonsense I have recently made up. There is nothing “New Age” about this; great scholars throughout history have been saying so.
However, as I keep trying to explain, if a person is not willing to explore further with an open mind it is never going to happen for that person. With me it was 1st Step, “My life is shit.” 2nd Step, “What am I going to do about it?” 3rd, Step, “Change my thinking.” Because let’s face it, nothing will change until an individual makes a concious choice to make that change.
There used to be an awful lot of “Bad Shit” in my life; but you are suggesting I merely pick and choose what I want to believe. If this is so, where did all the “Bad Shit” go? It is no longer there; thus proving to myself that positive thinking works. I didn't say I proved it to you or anyone else, but ask yourself why would I make this up and say my life is now good, if it was still shit.
If you are reading this and your life is perfect, there is no need to change. But there are plenty of people out there whose lives are a living Hell. Constant turmoil, bad health, misfortune. What is causing this, do not most of these people bring it on themselves by poor choices and wrong thinking?
I feel that I am not promoting any rational comment or discussion. We are like children engaged in a “Is not,” Is so,” “Is not,” “Is so,” type of exchange.
Dave
Willie had it RIGHT 'Nothing is either good nor bad, but thinking makes it so. Self pity is THE biggest culprit. feel sorry for yourself and your thoughts will be bad. Have a positive outlook on life and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.. You woke up this AM THIS is a step in the right direction, now its up to you.
It would be helpful to be clear about what we are discussing before claiming something works or not, and whether there is evidence to support the claim.
Positive thinking: There appears to be plenty of evidence that ones thoughts and emotions can have good (and bad) effects on their physical well-being.
Other peoples thinking: Call it prayer, holistic energy or any other thing you like, the evidence presented to show this has any effect is virtually non-existent compared to all of the results showing the opposite.
Given the above, it's perfectly reasonable to conclude that if I pray for you all day for weeks, it's unlikely to do much. But if I tell you I'm doing all that praying, your thoughts may well be affected with a (potentially measurable and real) physical result.
My conclusion? Think for yourself, it can't hurt!
Dave,
There is much truth in what you say. People with incurable diseases go to Lourdes, France to visit the Holy Shrine there. Some are cured, some are not. Is there a God who picks and chooses who will be cured and who not? I would rather believe it is the person's thoughts, their faith and belief that a cure will be forthcoming that causes it to happen. (They could have actually stayed home a got the same results.) Those who say I am simply picking the successes and ignoring the failures, should consider this; why should even one single person be cured by visiting a particular place? But over the years it has been well documented that many people have been cured.
Dave M
"They could have actually stayed home a got the same results".
This is the point. Being cured of disease because you make a visit to Lourdes is merely random. But having a positive outlook can and does have benefits.
Excellent point about the faithful finding cures at Lourdes. In the grotto they have hundreds of crutches left there by people who hobbled in but walked away. I believe it was Anatole France who noted this and commented: "one wooden leg would have been much more convincing."
I works just like the bible says, "As am man thinketh, so is he. " I don't think it requires prayer, it simply requires thought. Good discussion.
Nocebo is a thing.
Pointing the bone, for example.
I'm pretty sure the revolting health warnings on smokes would have an epidemiologically measurable effect.