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Entries in eBay sales (11)


Making sense of eBay prices

The Fuso frame pictured above, recently sold on eBay for $303, which seems to be about the going rate for a frame and fork. I would consider this a fair price.

The frame was listed as undamaged, but the original paint showed signs of normal wear and tear, with a fair amount of chips and scratches. My advice would be to build this frame up into bike up and ride it, as is. If you start thinking about re-painting, a good paint job will set you back $700, or more.

Now you have $300 the frame cost you, plus $700, $1,000 invested. Not including the cost of shipping when you bought it on eBay, and then the shipping to, and back from the painter.

Fuso frames or not rare, I built around 2,400 between 1984 and 1993. So the best option is to ride this bike as is, and wait for another to come along with paint in better condition. There were a lot of Fuso bikes that were bought on a whim, then hardly ever used. Rarely does a week goes by that one or two frames I built come up on eBay.

So if one comes up for sale in the size you want, be prepared to pay a little more if it has really nice paint.

It will still be hundreds of dollars cheaper than refinishing, and original paint will retain a higher resale value than a repaint.

Don’t forget too that the original frame you bought for $300 you can put back on eBay and get most, if not all your money back.

Here is where I don’t quite follow the logic behind some eBay bidding. It seems people balk at paying much over $300 for a frame and fork. But as I have just explained if you paid $200 more for really nice paint, it is far cheaper, and better than buying a beat up frame and refinishing.

Plus there is this to consider. The beat up frame probably has been ridden hard for tens of thousands of miles, whereas the frame with pristine paint has had little use, with no more than a few hundred miles on it. It is as if you had gone back in time and just bought it from a bike store.

Take for example this bike shown above left, and below, it was listed recently at $1,400 and had no bidders. The going rate for a complete bike seems to be between $500 and $800. Rarely does anyone bid on anything over $1,000. Regardless of condition, which is what I don’t quite understand.

The original finish on this one is really nice with just a few minor nicks in the paint. It has top of the line Campagnolo components, with Delta brakes. These alone would resell on eBay for $250 or more.

This next Fuso Lux bike is another. (Below.) Currently listed on eBay at $2,000 “Buy it Now” price, or auctioned starting at $1200. I have followed the history on this one. About a year ago, this frame was new in a box, stored in someone’s attic and never used. The current owner bought it and built it up with modern Scram components. Then the owner found it was a tad small for him. Hence it is on sale.

This is a Fuso “Lux,” the top of the line, no expense spared model. It was brand new a year ago, and you could not have got me to build a frame a year ago at any price.  The circumstances of this bike are rare and the $2,000 price tag, I think is fair.

Of course I realze people will pay what they can afford and what they think an item is worth. Maybe most just want a bike to ride, and nice paint is not an issue. 

I would like to point out that I don’t know any of the people selling these bikes or frames that I have mentioned, and I have no financial interest in any of these sales. I just don’t like to see people get ripped off, whether they are a buyer or a seller.

Here are some tips to consider when buying a used frame or complete bike on eBay.

1.)    Don’t buy a frame with the front fork missing. Ask for the fork. Was it damaged in a crash? A bent steel for can be safely straightened, but expect to pay a greatly reduced price. Also make sure the top and down tubes are not rippled.

2.)    When buying a complete bike, look at the components. I built and sold frames to bicycle dealers who then built them into complete bikes. Often they were assembled with cheaper components to keep the cost down. The idea being that the owner would upgrade later. This rarely happened, so when such a bike comes up for sale, bear in mind that the frame is the only thing of value. The rest of the bike’s components have little resale worth.

3.)    Most top of the line racing bikes built back in the day had tubular tires, nice lightweight clinchers were not available back then. Keep in mind you may have to re-build or replace the wheels and buy tires. Wheels for tubulars (Sprint rims.) do have some resale value on eBay, especially if they are in good condition. You may be able to recoup a large part of the cost of replacing the wheels and tires.

4.)    There were more frames built in the mid sizes. But then again it is the mid sizes that are still in demand today so there will be more people bidding. There were fewer very small and the very large frames built, so these will come up for sale less often. But again the small and larger sizes are in less demand. You may get a bargain because you are the only one bidding, but if there are more than one bidder the price may go high.

5.)    Don’t get carried away. Decide ahead of time how much you are prepared to spend and stick with it. If you get beat by $3.00 it does not mean if you had bid $4.00 more you would have got it. The other guy may have been prepared to go much higher, you were the second highest bidder and when your highest bid was reached, the next guy got it for just $3.00 more.

6.)    Don’t bid early. All that does is push the price up. The only exception is, if you can’t be home when the auction ends. Enter the highest amount you are prepared to pay just before the action ends. This does two things, it gives others less time to counter bid.

Possibly more important, if you are outbid, you don’t have time to counter again. Because be honest, you decided before hand how far you were prepared to go. There should be no regrets, it sold for more than you were prepared to pay.

If you have regrets, then you were actually prepared to go higher, and probably should have done so. Either way you will just have wait for the next one to come along, and it will. There is always another day.


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Fuso Components

I am often asked, “What was the standard component package on the Fuso?” or John Howard, or Recherché.

The answer: There was no standard component package. The reason, I only sold frames, not complete bikes. The frames were ordered by bicycle dealers, usually for a specific customer, who then chose the components and the bike shop ordered these in and built the bike.

Often what happened was the customer could not afford an all Campagnolo or Shimano Dura-Ace equipped bike. So the dealer built the bike with lower priced components like Sugino, Sun Tour, or Shimano 600.

The thinking was, (And I agreed.) the frame is what determines how the bike fits, handles, and feels to the rider. Wheels are the next important factor, but after that a Sugino crankset, or cheaper pedals will, for the most part, feel no different than Campagnolo. The main difference is the quality of finish and the durability of the product, not so much in the ride quality.

The theory was, get a newcomer on a quality frame, get them hooked on cycling and they would come back and upgrade to a better quality component later. This was a smart business move for the Bike Dealer, and it sold frames for me.

For about the same price as say a mid range Japanese or European import, a customer could get on one of my frames with lower priced components. And of course when the customer compared the mid range import and my bike on a test ride they could feel the difference.

That was the theory. In reality what happened in many cases, the bike purchase was an impulse thing, and after a short period, the bike ended up sitting in the garage where many still languish to this day.

From time to time such a bike comes up on eBay, often with a mish-mosh of cheap components. If you are buying such a bike, realize that you are basically buying it for the frame. If you strip the components to replace them with, say Campagnolo; these left over parts will have little or no resale value.

On the other hand, many may not want such a bike. If you can buy it at a bargain price, you can ride as originally intended and upgrade the components as they become available.

All frames I built were measured center to top which is approximately 2 cm. more that the center to center measurement. For example frame stamped 58 under the bottom bracket shell, would measure 56 cm. center to center. Also, if it is a Fuso and you ask the seller for the frame number, you canlink to my website here and get the approximate date it was built.



A little bit of history sold on eBay

A custom 'dave moulton' touring bicycle that featured in a "Bicycling" magazine road test in January 1983, sold on eBay last evening.

There were only 20 of this particular model built; I put in a call to the seller last week to ask for the serial number. Confirming the number 4823 in my serial number record book showed it was indeed the same bike.

This story goes back a year earlier to January 1982. I was building frames for Masi in their San Marcos, California frame shop.

I became a victim of my own productivity, and was building frames faster than Masi could sell them. The inventory of frames became so large I was temporarily laid off. I had essentially worked myself out of a job, and was sent to the unemployment office to sign on for benefits.

I got as far as standing in line at the office, wondering what I was doing there. My pride or maybe my ego told me this was not right, and I left without ever signing on. I went back to the Masi shop and asked if I could use their equipment to build my own frames.

An agreement was reached on rent, etc. and I started calling bicycle dealers all over the US, telling them who I was, and offered to build custom frames. I started to receive a few orders; I could deliver a custom built frame in two or three weeks at that time, which was unheard of.

I was also unheard of for the most part. I had gone from being one of the best know builders in England in the 1970s, to an unknown entity in the United States in 1982. The Masi name on my resume helped, but I still desperately needed publicity; I contacted "Bicycling" and they agreed to do a road test.

They chose the Touring model because it was different than the usual bikes they tested and wrote about. I built the frame in April of 1982, I contacted various component manufacturers for donations of components to complete the bike. The bike was assembled with a strange miss-match of Avocet, Sun Tour, Modolo, etc.

Fellow Brit Steve Aldrige, who had worked with me at Paris Sport, now worked for "Buds" Bike Store in Claremont, CA. Steve was also the US National Team Mechanic; he built the wheels, and assembled the bike. Bicycling did their road test in the summer of 1982 but it would be the following January before the article appeared in the magazine.

After the road test, Steve Aldridge got the bike as repayment for his work and it was subsequently sold. I never saw or heard of it again until it showed up on eBay last week. The bike was up for sale by The Drop Off Store a consignment store in Rancho Cucamonga, a few miles from Claremont where the bike was originally sold.

The drive train has been upgraded with Campagnolo components, but it still appeared to have the same Modolo brakes. The paint appears to be original and in fair condition, and the original color matched pump was still in place. The bike is in need of a thorough cleaning and probably the tires and handlebar tape need replacing. I appears the bike has been stored for many of its years.

In 1983 the retail price on this frame was $925, the complete bike went for $1600. Yesterday on eBay there were 14 people bidding and the virtual hammer fell at $1,330.30. The item number was 350029129880. You can read the Bicycling road test article here in PDF format.

This is the highest price I have seen on eBay for one of my bikes. I think it is fair given the rarity and history of this bike. Incidentally, I didn’t reveal the history before the sale because I didn’t want to influence the price.

There was another seller on eBay asking $4,000 for a Fuso, which is way out of line. There are still plenty of Fusos out there, (I built 3,000.) so if you miss one, another will be along. I don’t want to see anyone screwed, buyer or seller.

This particular bike and the subsequent road test in Bicycling played an important part in getting my business out of the Masi shop and into my own facility in San Marcos. It not only gave me the publicity I needed, but was one of the things I used to convince my bank to lend me the money to finance the operation.

Another interesting footnote: If you look at the Masi Registry, you will notice there were only a few special order Masi frames (Like track frames.) built in 1982. That’s because they were still selling the backlog of frames I built in 1981. It would be well into 1983 before production began again. About the time I moved into my own facility, and David Tesch took over as Masi’s builder.


75 Bucks for Scrap Metal on Ebay

After I wrote about this Masi frame on eBay February 10th; it was withdrawn then re-listed item number 230091061463. I don't believe the seller saw my blog because he still listed it as a 1984 when I pointed out that it was in fact built in 1981.

My only interest was that it was originally built by me, and it gave me the opportunity to write about the Masi numbering system. The frame looks like it has been run over at some point.

The seat tube is cut out; it was probably damaged like the top tube. But why were the rear chainstays cut off just in front of the rear dropouts? This appears to be one of the few undamaged parts on the frame. The front fork was also probably undamaged, but it is missing.

This item sold for $45 plus $29.99 for shipping; a penny shy of 75 bucks for a piece of scrap metal. It never ceases to amaze me what people will pay for stuff on eBay.


The Good News and the Bad News

The good news is, there is a Masi frame that I built on eBay this morning and the bidding is only up to $2.25.

Masi frames were numbered A, B, C, and D for the four quarters of the year, followed by the year 81, and 14 was the number frame that quarter. So this was built in the 4th. quarter around October 1981 (Not 1984 as the seller has it listed.)

I built Masi frames from October 1980 until the end of December 1981. On the other side of the bottom bracket is the number SMC59. SMC is for San Marcos, California, the location of the Masi frameshop, and 59cm. is the frame size.

This is the bad news.....

The item number on eBay is 260082503350

It might be worth $2.25 as a conversation piece, but with thirty bucks added for shipping I'm not recommending this one.